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Post by Merpes on Jun 11, 2018 16:08:03 GMT
Yeah... I was curious what pension figures looked like. This is from 2013: The NHL has been the "poor cousin" of pension plans in pro sports, says pension lawyer Mitch Frazer. NHL players were eligible to earn a maximum of $50,000 (all currency U.S.) a year in 2012 after playing at least 160 games, while players in Major League Baseball need 43 days of service to begin to qualify for a pension benefit of $34,000 a year, and analysts say baseball can earn pensions of $200,000 annually with 10 years of service. www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/still-the-poor-cousin-new-cba-improves-pension-plan-for-average-nhlers/article7206747/Not sure why we're in a hurry to pass up 1 mil per year so that he can get......$50K a year....? Maybe Jim thinks the NHL pension is like the pension for IL state workers and teachers? At least there you can earn 250-300k per year in benefits. That might also explain why property taxes are 10k for a 250k home.
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Post by Merpes on Jun 11, 2018 16:11:53 GMT
As soon as he files his papers, he gets his NHLPA pension...that $1 mil per year salary is exactly meaningless. Lol...you should do a self help finance infomercial with such keen insight on money. Walkaway from 3 millionz to start collecting your NHLPA pension is >>>>(only in Jimsee's world) collect 3 millionz and then start collecting your pension (while being in the good graces of the Hawks management/ownership because you didn't completely fuck them (for no reason) with a recapture penalty and then land some no show do nothing job for 6 figures as a Hawks ambassador/Binny's Beverage Depot spokesperson to go along with your pension and an extra 3 millionz in your bank account. Put more simply....how much do you think Big Hoss is going to get a year in pension payments? How many years do you think it will take for those pension payments to equal 3 million? Just a wild guess (cause I'm no financial informercial expert), but the interest on 3 million (200K-250K annually if you have any acumen with long term investing) is more then Hossa's pension might be for half a decade. Tough decision. Let Jim babysit your kids or manage your finances. Even worse, let Jim manage your kid's finances.
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Post by markwojo on Jun 11, 2018 17:30:51 GMT
So basically, everyone but Jimsee agrees Hossa's contract is easily moved with little potential repercussions.
The Hawks need to find a team that is not likely to be near the top end of the cap in the next 3 years and has a contractual commitment in the neighborhood of the 3 million owed remaining on Hossa's contract that they wouldn't mind seeing go away.
Vegas owes Jon Merrill 1.375 per for 2 years (Hawks have an expensive 7th dman, try to flip him to another team that needs a 3rd pairing guy, or bury him in the A to reduce his cap impact).
Ottawa (assuming Karlsson/Hoffman are going and they go full rebuild) probably wouldn't mind moving Zach Smith's contract. He has 3.25 per for 3 years left. Ottawa may prefer paying something like 2 per year (Hossa plus a million retained on Smith), instead of Smith his 3.25. Smith at 2.25 for 3 years (and 3.25 in fully useable cap space) would be an interesting gamble to see if Smith can bounce back from a down season.
Beleskey seems like he is done being an NHL player and the Rags owe him almost 4 million over the next 2 season. I doubt it would be hard to talk them into retain 500K per for 2 years of Beleskey and pay Hossa a million per for the same 4 million. Beleskey at 1.4 for the 2 years is a reclamation lotto ticket that worst case you waive to the AHL and have 500K on the NHL cap (which is way better then Hossa (and probably carrying over overage bonus penalties like the 1.29 this year since LTIR don't apply to them).
Detroit could be an interesting Hossa option...they owe Glendening 1.8 per for 3 years (which is not horrible for a 4th line/PK center) but have a lot of kids looking for a spot at center (Rasmusen/Ehn/Holmstrom/Turgeron). Barring some major signings, I don't see them needing the cap (they also lose Franzen and Daley off the cap before the third year of Hossa's deal).
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Post by lari on Jun 11, 2018 18:24:42 GMT
Coyotes would be happy to have Hoss if he could play. A million a year for (an NHL level) warm body with a large cap hit is great. But why would they spend a dime of their measly budget on a player who won't take a roster spot? That means they need to pay yet another player to play. You need to be smart to build a (competitive) team on a small budget.
They can reach the cap floor by paying actually talented players what they are worth.
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Post by garyu on Jun 11, 2018 18:58:28 GMT
Coyotes would be happy to have Hoss if he could play. A million a year for (an NHL level) warm body with a large cap hit is great. But why would they spend a dime of their measly budget on a player who won't take a roster spot? That means they need to pay yet another player to play. You need to be smart to build a (competitive) team on a small budget. They can reach the cap floor by paying actually talented players what they are worth. OH, Grow Up!
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Post by markwojo on Jun 11, 2018 19:12:30 GMT
Coyotes would be happy to have Hoss if he could play. A million a year for (an NHL level) warm body with a large cap hit is great. But why would they spend a dime of their measly budget on a player who won't take a roster spot? That means they need to pay yet another player to play. You need to be smart to build a (competitive) team on a small budget. They can reach the cap floor by paying actually talented players what they are worth. If OEL is not staying in the desert, the Yotes will never be anywhere near the cap ceiling (during the remain 3 years of Hoss's deal). Hell, they can sign OEL to 10 million per and still never approach the cap max. No OEL, means they are struggling to get to the cap basement. "Talented players" as you say haven't been flocking to the desert and are highly unlikely to suddenly want to go play for a horrible team in a shitty hockey market. Sure they can overpay for 3 or 4 leftover (after good teams and teams in good hockey markets pick over the better) UFA's and get to the floor, but their history is being cheap (and given their stadium deal/attendance/market in general....that is their reality). They've been having insurance pay David Bolland so they can artificially have 5.5 million on their cap to meet the cap basement the last several seasons. They are in the last year of that and also lose 1.5 in Smith's buyout after this season all in an environment where the cap (and cap floor) are going up pretty significantly. They likely are saving a million on replacing Panik (who they took a chance on in part to get rid of Duclair who wanted out, and not because his deal was some sort of bargain) with a kid on an ELC. No OEL means Hjammer is gone (pretty sure he is partially an attempt to make a shitty team attractive to OEL). Kruger I also believe is an attempt to keep OEL with a familiar face around and not because his on ice performance warrants (waived by a non playoff team and spent time in the AHL) his 2.775 cap hit (or his 2 million in actual salary after Carolina's retention). If OEL won't sign an extension....you'll see Kruger in the AHL is my guess.
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Post by Merpes on Jun 11, 2018 19:46:31 GMT
There are teams that could use the Hossa contract for a variety of reasons. A team like the Yotes to meet the cap floor. A team above the cap floor but still far below the ceiling looking to fleece Stun out of an asset. That's the kicker. Any team taking on the contract is gonna want their sweetener to make it happen for the Hawks.
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Post by markwojo on Jun 11, 2018 20:20:13 GMT
There is so little actual salary left to pay Hossa (3 million) verses almost 16 million in cap hit that the contract will be extremely attractive to any team that may be flirting with the cap floor. Cap floor teams are generally speaking in a poor market with limited revenue, rarely attractive to the cream of the UFA crop, and have the choice of spending 20 cents on the dollar to get to the cap floor, or 100 cents on the dollar on overpaying the leftover mediocre UFA's. Likewise teams that realistically will not be near the cap max can move a small bad contract (3-4 million) or a contract that has been made redundant by development of internal youngin's. The Hawks are also not up against the cap (aka over the barrel) as they were when trying to move prior deals. A Hossa "dump" will look more like the Datsyuk dump with Arizona (where the "sweetener" was #16 OA for #20 OA #53 OA and Vitale who was essentially moving 1.1 million in dead money) then some of the shit we've had to do (TT with Bickell).
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Post by jimc on Jun 12, 2018 6:54:49 GMT
You Do realize he has a NMC...right?
And also, increased, the Hawks are subject to recapture if he retires, and it will then be totally out of their control.
And Hossa has already made over $100 mil in his career...so that last $3 mil for 3 years is meaningless...the cobtract was DESIGNED do he WOULD retire
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Post by markwojo on Jun 12, 2018 11:28:14 GMT
You Do realize he has a NMC...right? And also, increased, the Hawks are subject to recapture if he retires, and it will then be totally out of their control. And Hossa has already made over $100 mil in his career...so that last $3 mil for 3 years is meaningless...the cobtract was DESIGNED do he WOULD retire Because if Hoss waives his NMC and is traded on paper to Arizona, he will have to buy Pronger or Datysuk's house (or maybe he lives in an apartment for a year and then Bolland sells him his place)? It must be hard pretending you are that obtuse....or ARE you...pretending?
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Post by garyu on Jun 12, 2018 14:10:27 GMT
You Do realize he has a NMC...right? And also, increased, the Hawks are subject to recapture if he retires, and it will then be totally out of their control. And Hossa has already made over $100 mil in his career...so that last $3 mil for 3 years is meaningless...the cobtract was DESIGNED do he WOULD retire Because if Hoss waives his NMC and is traded on paper to Arizona, he will have to buy Pronger or Datysuk's house (or maybe he lives in an apartment for a year and then Bolland sells him his place)? It must be hard pretending you are that obtuse....or ARE you...pretending? Obtuse would be kind.
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Post by lari on Jun 12, 2018 14:11:22 GMT
If I was trying to build a competitive hockey team on a shoestring budget, I would not pay seven digit money to a player who will not play for my team.
They are at $52m currently for next year, with only 17 players. No problem at all reaching the cap floor ($55m?). Maybe get another semi-decent player on a large cap hit but small actual money. No need to waste money to bloat your cap hit near the max.
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Post by soccer24 on Jun 12, 2018 14:25:29 GMT
Right, so a little bit of a sweetener would be preferred. Or an exchange of some money you don't want to spend yourself.
Hossa is not unique from the many other contracts that have been traded in this fashion. There's no need to go to such ridiculous excuses as "HE HAS AN NMC!"
Probably the biggest hurdle to the Hossa issue is you're looking for a team to keep a 5 mil salary on the books for 3 seasons. My notes aren't as clean as others, but that would probably be one of the longest terms a team would be agreeing to if it happened this season, right? I imagine this becomes much more practical next season.
Lari's critique is fair if we're looking at this from a 3 year plan perspective. But if Hoss only had 2 years, and they get an upgraded draft pick out of the deal, they probably go for it this year.
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Post by gadi on Jun 12, 2018 14:45:44 GMT
Lari is correct that the Yotes wouldn't NEED Hossa's contract to get to the floor. That said, if the Hawks make it worth their while, I'm sure they'd listen. There's almost no chance that they'd be pushing up against the cap limit, even if they are trying to be good. So that's on Stan to get it done.
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Post by garyu on Jun 12, 2018 14:47:14 GMT
Lari is correct that the Yotes wouldn't NEED Hossa's contract to get to the floor. That said, if the Hawks make it worth their while, I'm sure they'd listen. There's almost no chance that they'd be pushing up against the cap limit, even if they are trying to be good. So that's on Stan to get it done. Hoss and a 4th.
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