GOAT Discussion

[jimc]

Give yesterday's players todays training and eqyipment and they still dominate

Outside of Sid, nobody today is anywhere near that list.

As for Mario's supporting cast...Jagr, Francis, Recchi, Stevens,Tocchet etc...even coffey and Trots at the end of their careers...he did just fine.


99 has more assists alone than anyone else has points...and Howe extended his career waaayyy too long.

Orr is the only other one, IMO, to be considered, for how he changed and dominated the game. Matio is a very solid #3.

[khawk20]

The smoking in the locker room was a real thing.
Right into the early 80s.

The fitness equation is one you can definitely apply as to making these comparisons tough, but it is also noteworthy that even fourth line guys today have a tremendous skill level. Sid and co these days play against far better players than the stars ofyesteryear did when they are able to get out against third and fourth liners.

So in a lot of ways these things even outin each era,a bit.

Never mind goaltending then vs. Now, systems and strategies, etc.

Guys like Wayne were three levels ahead of the average player and two levels ahead of the good ones. A guy like sid isn't afforded that luxury and is maybe 1-1 and a half levels above the lower end guys. But, that's still huge.

Just doesn't reflect in their point totals.

[lari]

Dec 16, 2017 18:23:37 GMT khawk20 said:

Sid and co these days play against far better players than the stars ofyesteryear did when they are able to get out against third and fourth liners.

Fourth liners in the 06 era would have been top liners in a 31 team league. Today's 2nd liners couldn't crack the lineups of a six team league. 

[HawkDad]

I already said Orr was the greatest of all times.

[soccer24]

Dec 16, 2017 18:23:37 GMT khawk20 said:

The smoking in the locker room was a real thing.
Right into the early 80s.

The fitness equation is one you can definitely apply as to making these comparisons tough, but it is also noteworthy that even fourth line guys today have a tremendous skill level. Sid and co these days play against far better players than the stars ofyesteryear did when they are able to get out against third and fourth liners.

So in a lot of ways these things even outin each era,a bit.

Never mind goaltending then vs. Now, systems and strategies, etc.

Guys like Wayne were three levels ahead of the average player and two levels ahead of the good ones. A guy like sid isn't afforded that luxury and is maybe 1-1 and a half levels above the lower end guys. But, that's still huge.

Just doesn't reflect in their point totals.

Agreed, a thousand percent on the skill level. Today's players really are just better. And looking at a highlight reel of al 800+ goals Gretzky has, you can probably count a large percentage that would be stopped by the butterfly.

The flipside to all this... Crosby and <insert whoever you think is the greatest d-man of the modern era here> don't exist if Gretzky and Orr didn't come first.

The only thing I'd point out on the fitness aspect... If everyone back then trained like everyone trains today, I don't know if we'd see the same players dominate. It's easier today for players to commit 100% to the game. Back then that was more difficult to do. It's hard to say how many players who may have been thriving in talent never got their physical abilities up to par.