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Post by jimc on Jan 16, 2019 22:26:00 GMT
It's a small sample size, but those stats seem to reinforce the general feeling around here about the D. Gustafsson is terrible defensively, but an asset closer to the offensive zone, Keith is a shadow of his former self, Jokiharju's positives outweigh the negatives and Seabrook is a fucking trainwreck whenever he's on the ice. I'll trust the eye test here
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Post by jimc on Jan 16, 2019 22:28:52 GMT
Joker is also very highly protected...but he should be
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Post by garyu on Jan 17, 2019 2:23:36 GMT
It's a small sample size, but those stats seem to reinforce the general feeling around here about the D. Gustafsson is terrible defensively, but an asset closer to the offensive zone, Keith is a shadow of his former self, Jokiharju's positives outweigh the negatives and Seabrook is a fucking trainwreck whenever he's on the ice. Agree with this...Seabs proves that ice is real slippery.
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Post by jimc on Jan 17, 2019 3:12:18 GMT
Do we think he belongs in the NHL any more?
For real?
I'm not sure you can make a convincing case for it.
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Post by garyu on Jan 17, 2019 3:42:57 GMT
Retirement sounds good. I don't want to rip #7, since he meant so much to the team..Now 3rd pair on a bad team.
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Post by Giovi on Jan 17, 2019 3:54:57 GMT
It's a small sample size, but those stats seem to reinforce the general feeling around here about the D. Gustafsson is terrible defensively, but an asset closer to the offensive zone, Keith is a shadow of his former self, Jokiharju's positives outweigh the negatives and Seabrook is a fucking trainwreck whenever he's on the ice. Yeah, pretty much what i took from it. Ive always been a Seabs fan. Hes been a warrior for this team throughout, and leading into, the good years. But man, is he hard to watch these days.
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Post by lari on Jan 17, 2019 6:20:00 GMT
He could become the assistant coach.
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Post by garyu on Jan 17, 2019 14:34:31 GMT
It's a small sample size, but those stats seem to reinforce the general feeling around here about the D. Gustafsson is terrible defensively, but an asset closer to the offensive zone, Keith is a shadow of his former self, Jokiharju's positives outweigh the negatives and Seabrook is a fucking trainwreck whenever he's on the ice. Yeah, pretty much what i took from it. Ive always been a Seabs fan. Hes been a warrior for this team throughout, and leading into, the good years. But man, is he hard to watch these days.Exactly. It's sad to see.
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Post by jrsamu on Jan 17, 2019 17:53:32 GMT
Yeah, pretty much what i took from it. Ive always been a Seabs fan. Hes been a warrior for this team throughout, and leading into, the good years. But man, is he hard to watch these days.Exactly. It's sad to see. Seabrook was my favorite Hawk when the team was relevant. I keep wanting to see signs of him turning the corner. He knows better than many other on this list what to do, where to go, but the body and legs are just not responding. Said previously, the price of having only two reliable defensive pairings for a run of 7 years. Other than Daley, that is on Stan, folks. Stan is very fortunate that they (as in Q) were able to pull as much value out of Oduya as they did. It wasn't JO alone obviously, but the team doesn't win either of those last two cups without him eating those defensive minutes. Ranking: 1st pairing - none 2nd pairing - (#4, with the right partner) Keith (#4) Joker - he isn't there now but I see a fairly high ceiling down the road. Right now he should be in the place where he'll see the best coaching.3rd pairing - (#5) Murphy (#6), with the right partner) Gustafsson: when it matters, a power play specialist who cannot defend (see Nick Leddy) is on the third pairing with sheltered 5x5 minutes). And only if you have a strong top 4. (#7) Seabrook, with the right partner not Gustafsson. (#7) Dahlstrom - the jury is still out. He plays smarter than a lot of this list, but I'm not sure he is effective enough at any one thing. (#7) Koekkoek (if he was that good a prospect he would be playing in Tampa) (#8) Davidson (#8) Forsling (is anyone coaching him how to play in his own end?)
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Post by garyu on Jan 17, 2019 18:41:09 GMT
Exactly. It's sad to see. Seabrook was my favorite Hawk when the team was relevant. I keep wanting to see signs of him turning the corner. He knows better than many other on this list what to do, where to go, but the body and legs are just not responding. Said previously, the price of having only two reliable defensive pairings for a run of 7 years. Other than Daley, that is on Stan, folks. Stan is very fortunate that they (as in Q) were able to pull as much value out of Oduya as they did. It wasn't JO alone obviously, but the team doesn't win either of those last two cups without him eating those defensive minutes. Ranking: 1st pairing - none 2nd pairing - (#4, with the right partner) Keith (#4) Joker - he isn't there now but I see a fairly high ceiling down the road. Right now he should be in the place where he'll see the best coaching.3rd pairing - (#5) Murphy (#6), with the right partner) Gustafsson: when it matters, a power play specialist who cannot defend (see Nick Leddy) is on the third pairing with sheltered 5x5 minutes). And only if you have a strong top 4. (#7) Seabrook, with the right partner not Gustafsson. (#7) Dahlstrom - the jury is still out. He plays smarter than a lot of this list, but I'm not sure he is effective enough at any one thing. (#7) Koekkoek (if he was that good a prospect he would be playing in Tampa) (#8) Davidson (#8) Forsling (is anyone coaching him how to play in his own end?) on a 'need to know' basis.
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Post by jimc on Jan 18, 2019 3:49:32 GMT
Fuck...Dahlstrom is terrible...really awful in his own end and terrible decision making.
Murphy is just not good at anything.
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Post by jrsamu on Jan 18, 2019 13:45:12 GMT
We should revel in the three Stanley Cups and thank the team and players for something that few teams in any sport experience. The last two or three years show in spades that it was no a foregone conclusion. It doesn't deny the fact that the team as had many, many missteps really since Cup #2 that have lead up to the current situation.
Keith, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson were going to break down. If not for riding Johnny Oduya and Rozsival and getting about as much out of them as anyone could, if you look back at the defensive capabilities of the defensemen the Hawks relied on, it is pretty clear how much rode on those three guys. The management side of stocking the blue line assets has actually been pretty shitty all the way around. Other than Trevor Daley, that is squarely on the GM IMO.
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Post by Merpes on Jan 19, 2019 15:13:51 GMT
Things went downhill pretty fast when the Hawks' doctors couldn't figure out why Bickell was incapable of being a part-time waiter at Ruth Chris's. Hawks would have had more flexibility and kept TT to trade for something else more useful, etc.
Nonetheless, this team was always going to crash hard eventually. Pulling assets from the future consistently for 8 years was always going to end up with this result. A lot of teams do the same thing and end up with zilch out of it.
The problem now is that the Hawks really don't have that many assets that other teams will want. Contenders generally don't want anything than rentals this time of year and the Hawks don't have any worth much.
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Post by Merpes on Jan 19, 2019 15:17:16 GMT
The only kind of trade Stan is likely to pull off is taking on a bad contract from a contender looking to create more wiggle room at the deadline to go get a Mark Stone or Matt Duchene.
Stan could take Frolik off Calgary's hands for a 2nd and a prospect or something. Frolik expires after next year so you get assets now and flip him next year too. That's asset management 101.
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Post by Merpes on Jan 19, 2019 15:21:48 GMT
And everyone should understand that the Hawks have no business signing Panarin, etc. in the offseason. They need to stay the course and let the yewts in the system marinate a little longer before they add another 8 figure salary cap hit on the ledger. I think this will solve itself though since I imagine no one is going to want to sign long-term in Chicago considering where the franchise is. Expect more Chris Kunitz, Cam Ward, and Brandon Manning signings for the short-term to bridge the gap.
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